OpenBSD Journal
Contributed by deanna on from the bio and culture dept.
The OpenBSD Culture is a look at the customs, achievements and institutions that distinguish the OpenBSD developer community.
Bio and Sensors in OpenBSD is an updated version of Marco Peereboom and David Gwynne's talk about RAID management in OpenBSD (also available in html format).
The presentations were given by David Gwynne at OpenCON 2006.
(Comments are closed)
Copyright © - Daniel Hartmeier. All rights reserved. Articles and comments are copyright their respective authors, submission implies license to publish on this web site. Contents of the archive prior to as well as images and HTML templates were copied from the fabulous original deadly.org with Jose's and Jim's kind permission. This journal runs as CGI with httpd(8) on OpenBSD, the source code is BSD licensed. undeadly \Un*dead"ly\, a. Not subject to death; immortal. [Obs.]
By Anonymous Coward (200.142.128.16) on
I lost many opportunities to build large IT environments using OpenBSD because of these factors:
- No support for LVM
- Unknown status for modern Qlogic and Emulex HBAs
(to be plugged on EMC2 Symmetrix/Clariion storage)
Comments
By Nate (Nate) Evil on
>
> I lost many opportunities to build large IT environments using OpenBSD because of these factors:
>
> - No support for LVM
> - Unknown status for modern Qlogic and Emulex HBAs
> (to be plugged on EMC2 Symmetrix/Clariion storage)
>
So, how's that patch coming along?
Comments
By Anonymous Coward (200.142.128.16) on
> >
> > I lost many opportunities to build large IT environments using OpenBSD because of these factors:
> >
> > - No support for LVM
> > - Unknown status for modern Qlogic and Emulex HBAs
> > (to be plugged on EMC2 Symmetrix/Clariion storage)
> >
>
> So, how's that patch coming along?
It was a suggestion and not an order.
Please be kind and think about what OpenBSD userbase needs. Not every user has pseudo-god programming skills nor even money to sponsor such things, but at the same time run on companies that use open source software at most and would choose OpenBSD if all itīs needs are suited by the OS.
Yeah, yeah, a bet youīll ask the company I work for to donate. I have already tried it...
Comments
By phessler (64.173.147.26) on
> > >
> > > I lost many opportunities to build large IT environments using OpenBSD because of these factors:
> > >
> > > - No support for LVM
> > > - Unknown status for modern Qlogic and Emulex HBAs
> > > (to be plugged on EMC2 Symmetrix/Clariion storage)
> > >
> >
> > So, how's that patch coming along?
>
> It was a suggestion and not an order.
>
> Please be kind and think about what OpenBSD userbase needs. Not every user has pseudo-god programming skills nor even money to sponsor such things, but at the same time run on companies that use open source software at most and would choose OpenBSD if all itīs needs are suited by the OS.
>
> Yeah, yeah, a bet youīll ask the company I work for to donate. I have already tried it...
>
>
what do you need LVM for? what problem are you trying to solve?
I've not found a single problem that LVM has solved for me. Thats not to say there aren't any, just that I have personally not ran into them.
Comments
By Anonymous Coward (199.60.13.18) on
>
> I've not found a single problem that LVM has solved for me. Thats not to say there aren't any, just that I have personally not ran into them.
Would, expanding a volume, shrinking a volume, layering raid types and other nice features available in many commercial and non-commercial (Linux) offerings not count? Oh and all this has to be done transparently and often with volumes mounted.
If you can do this in OpenBSD please feel free to point me to the correct man pages.
Not to be picky but LVM and EVMS not just Linux kind offer many great features to make a storage admins life easier.
Comments
By Anonymous Coward (189.0.120.128) on
> >
> > I've not found a single problem that LVM has solved for me. Thats not to say there aren't any, just that I have personally not ran into them.
>
> Would, expanding a volume, shrinking a volume, layering raid types and other nice features available in many commercial and non-commercial (Linux) offerings not count? Oh and all this has to be done transparently and often with volumes mounted.
>
> If you can do this in OpenBSD please feel free to point me to the correct man pages.
>
> Not to be picky but LVM and EVMS not just Linux kind offer many great features to make a storage admins life easier.
I am the author of this thread.
Besides all the LVM capabilities, one of the best features I appreciate is the possibility to add disks to volume groups on demand, striping it according to the application needs and removing disks as needed, and maybe importing these disks on another VG -- even on another machine -- or sharing these disks on a cluster of machines. For exemple, here at my company, we share a single Logical Volume (hosted on multiple disks) to a group of 16 clustered servers.
LVM is well known by it's Linux usage, but has it's roots on AIX and HP-UX. At the initial thread I was not especifically referring to Linux, but HP-UX.
I know just asking for an enterprise level Volume Management daemon is very high profile (and expensive at the Storage hardware). But maybe some Undeadly reader has the skills or money to spend on this need.
Thanks!
Comments
By Anonymous Coward (199.60.13.18) on
I agree! I wish I had the skill to implement something like this. It would be a definite bonus from a storage management perspective. Of course, having to fsck an entire TB or PB of data, like what I would have to do is not acceptable either, but that's now far from the original posting.
Thank you to the OpenBSD devs for all their hard work and dedication. I admire you all greatly as a user of your great products!
By tedu (tedu) on
> >
> > I've not found a single problem that LVM has solved for me. Thats not to say there aren't any, just that I have personally not ran into them.
>
> Would, expanding a volume, shrinking a volume, layering raid types and other nice features available in many commercial and non-commercial (Linux) offerings not count?
you can accomplish this with ccd.
>Oh and all this has to be done transparently and often with volumes mounted.
you don't want a volume-manager. you want a new filesystem.
By Jeff Quast (dingo) on
> > >
(snip)
> >
> > So, how's that patch coming along?
>
> It was a suggestion and not an order.
>
> Please be kind and think about what OpenBSD userbase needs. Not every user has pseudo-god programming skills nor even money to sponsor such things, but at the same time run on companies that use open source software at most and would choose OpenBSD if all itīs needs are suited by the OS.
>
Linux and freebsd are polluted with blobs to make people like you happy.
If OpenBSD suits you, then you just happen to resonate with some of the goals of the developers. If it doesn't suit your needs then use something that does.
If you donate money, you are just helping them fund their own goals and directions. A Donation is just that, free money without strings.
Theo can buy a pair of hiking boots with my money for all I care.
Comments
By Nate (Nate) on
Well, I'd prefer it goes to his electric bill to tell ya the thruth, as long as the donation goes to project stuff, I am down with it.
By fransoa holop (165.72.200.11) on
have been expecting a presentation like this for some time now..
yes, i am only a user
yes, openbsd is *mostly* a dev culture
yes, misc@ is the ypres of the internet
but
no, i am not just your beta tester
not a word about our donations (money and/or hardware)
not a word about we buying the releases/shirts/etc religiously
wow, one whole slide about the user community, i am so moved.
your presentation is about the devs not the openbsd culture.
reminds me the unseen university where students were those "rats
we are forced to share the building with" said the teachers.
i am sure your elitist souls are so pleased.
give credit where credit is due.
Comments
By sean (sean) on I don't work here.
> not a word about our donations (money and/or hardware)
> not a word about we buying the releases/shirts/etc religiously
>
Users provide resources, that provides an environment for the culture and is not culture in and of itself. dlg@'s definition was quite specific, and OpenBSD is not about users so don't expect to be thanked at every turn for your periodic non-altruistic infusions of $40. Donations are appriciated by having a next release. That is all 'OpenBSD' feels is adequate compensation. We are the consumers who only have the ability to consume at the kindness of the producers who will produce regardless of the consumers contribution of resources. Yeah, it sucks (relative to someone outside the 'closed community') but don't ever expect that to change.
> your presentation is about the devs not the openbsd culture.
>
Agreed.
> give credit where credit is due.
>
Yes, DLG and Marco's bio stuff is great. Besides your religious monetary donation and insult, what have you given to the community? I know that statement is rather rough but it is the kind of answer you would get from anyone in the 'closed community' of developers.
Comments
By frantisek holop (165.72.200.11) on
at the end of the day, it all comes down to who makes the developement
possible. and that equation is: devs + users.
> dlg@'s definition was quite specific, and OpenBSD is not about users
not quite. if the presentation was called "the openbsd dev culture",
i would agree.
so we are not part of the culture? non-sense.
of course we are. when i tell someone i am an openbsd admin,
that will set a number of conditions in our discourse and/or
cooperation. something like "you are what you eat".
oh, and btw. devs are users just as well. one way or the other.
> so don't expect to be thanked at every turn for your periodic
> non-altruistic infusions of $40.
$40 maybe for you. 70-80 euros for me. just to put you in perspective.
of course it's well spent money, i never said it's not.
non-altruistic you say? i could very well spend it on something else
(bsd license), and telling me i am only a donor for people to have
fun (because they are, aren't they) is not helping to form a community
at all esp. if they "will produce regardless of the consumers
contribution of resources". don't make me laugh, bitterly.
i am a proud user of openbsd and try to be part of something.
maybe the moment. but hearing this over and over: thanks
for your money now piss off if you don't write perfect C code
and commit at least once a day keeps the "community" in exactly
the same status quo it has always been.
> Yes, DLG and Marco's bio stuff is great. Besides your religious
> monetary donation and insult, what have you given to the community?
i did not insult anyone. i was insulted. and my fellow admins
who use and advocate openbsd everywhere and fight with managers
who never heard of it and put their jobs on the line everyday
because they believe in openbsd. sounds dramatic? life is dramatic.
> I know that statement is rather rough but it is the kind of answer
> you would get from anyone in the 'closed community' of developers.
you are the same kind of apologist user for the devs like the apologist
users for the hw companies which do not release docs. you remind
me a dog who is happy even when the master kicks it, just because
it's the master. i was insulted more times by openbsd devs than by
all the linux admins combined in the universe. i am too old for this.
and i am making the mistake of puting all the devs in one basket.
go read the archives in any case, i am the "asshole" responsible
for some of the longest threads on misc esp. regarding the
devs vs users wars. look for "openbsd and the money" in the subject.
as i have said before on misc@, i never wanted the devs to put
a sig in their mails "and thanks for the donations".
but the presentation insults and angers me as a proud openbsd admin.
By Anonymous Coward (216.68.192.38) on
As a user of OpenBSD, I don't feel left out.
I'm happy to have OpenBSD be "OpenBSD," not some M$.
Want credit as a user? Perhaps make an active OUG, and document your
$ and contributions on your web page. When the OpenBSD "culture" recognizes your
"development," then perhaps due credit will be given. Simple enough.
By tedu (69.12.168.114) on
Comments
By frantisek holop (62.245.79.76) on
> about the openbsd user experience and wouldn't need to have it
> explained via slides.
i suspect we could say the same about the dev experience.
but i am starting to think that this thread is basically
my mistake. if the presentation was called "the openbsd dev culture"
i would have never posted anything.
By David Gwynne (dlg) on
> your presentation is about the devs not the openbsd culture.
sorry, it does look like i am giving little attention to the users of openbsd if you're simply looking at the slides. however, i would like to point out that there isn't any real correlation between the number and size of the slides given to a topic, and how much time i actually spent talking on that particular point.
sorry if you got the wrong impression from what i put up.
Comments
By frantisek holop (165.72.200.11) on
By Deanna Phillips (deanna) on
> your presentation is about the devs not the openbsd culture.
Um, it's pretty obvious that the "one slide" you mention was put there to spark a live discussion. You might want to have a professional take a look at that persecution complex of yours. ;)
Comments
By frantisek holop (165.72.200.11) on
By pkplex (pkplex) on http://127.0.0.1
And why is this an achievement?
Comments
By Nate (Nate) on
>
> And why is this an achievement?
It keeps the system pure, many systems mix C and C ++ in random places. C ++ makes baby Allah cry.
By Anonymous Coward (74.115.21.120) on
Because its a complex and dangerous language. C is at least simple and dangerous. Its very difficult to write safe software in a language that is very complex. C++ complilation times are also incredibly slow, making development slower, and putting developers off.
> And why is this an achievement?
Because other OS developers are dumb enough to let C++ infect their OSs.
Comments
By Anonymous Coward (122.49.141.57) on
By ahafey (ahafey) on
The collective experiences of the "users" counts for more than is immediately obvious, let's use it to the benefit of the project...
For example, first patch/diff (ports) on the way - you don't have to be a "dev" to fix things!
I don't want to be a dev (but I won't say never) given time constraints (and a black belt in slack) but I will and can you all please give what you can to help the project!!!
Thanks,
Alex.
By Jaz (134.244.167.55) on
Comments
By Anonymous Coward (219.90.243.38) on