OpenBSD Journal

PF training seminars

Contributed by jose on from the learning-how-to-filter dept.

Jacek Artymiak writes: "I am planning a series of training seminars on the subject of PF. Since I live an Poland and the EU labour laws prevent me from working in most EU countries, I though I'd organize them as close to the border between Poland and German as possible. Possible locations are Szczecin (Stettin), Poznan (Pozen), Wroclaw (Breslau), or Warszawa (Warsaw, Warschau). Szczecin looks like the best location, since it is less than 2 hours from Berlin, if you're arriving on a train.

Of course, it would be ideal, if people could come to me to Lublin, but I doubt anyone would want to ;-)

What I have in mind is a 2 day seminar on design, configuration, administration, and troubleshooting of firewalls with OpenBSD and pf. The price would include accomodation and all meals.

If you are interested, discuss this subject on deadly.org, write to me, or joint the jacek-obsd mailing list.

Jacek Artymiak"

Oh hey, neat! If you go, please send a report. Anything like this in North America?

(Comments are closed)


Comments
  1. By Alex de Joode () usura+deadly@dizum.net on http://dizum.net/

    EU Labour Laws may prevent you from working
    for a company it does not prevent you from
    setting up your own company and working for
    it (a one man company).

    This way a lot of Polish people working in
    Holland during the season where tomatoes and
    other vegetables are harvested. (and this is
    also the way most east europeans prostitues
    work *legally* in the Amsterdam redlight
    district).

    Goodluck !

    Comments
    1. By Anonymous Coward () on

      you have a degree on international diplomacy by any chance?

      Comments
      1. By Anonymous Coward () on

        not to worry, we Poles are as tough-skinned as Dutch tomatoes ;)

        but seriously, how a can a red-light district worker be a one-man company?

        btw, the referendum on joining the EU is this week-end in Poland. pls vote.

        Comments
        1. By submicron () on http://www.inherently-evil.net/

          but seriously, how a can a red-light district worker be a one-man company?

          Simple, she is an independent contractor for the pleasure therapy industry.

          Comments
          1. By Anonymous Coward () on

            I think his emphasis wa on the word "man" since red-light district workers tend to be women.

    2. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

      Wow, prostitutes must be making some good money in Amsterdam. A quick Google search revealed that to set up a company in Netherlands one needs at least 18,000 EURO (not including attorney's and accountant's fees). That's not an investment I'm planning on making any time soon.

      Maybe I'm in the wrong industry? ;-)

      Jacek

      Comments
      1. By Anonymous Coward () on

        Well setting up a company is damn easy, anyone can do that. Not anyone can find new clients for long term business relationships in a tight market to pay the bills, in a country where you can't speak the language. Developing business relationships is an art form in itself.

        Remember the differences between economies. If your thinking along this line, please stop everything and spend 3 months researching it, because it's not what it seems, else you will *feel* the pain, trust me on this.

        Oh, and Dutch salaries are low compared to the UK, very low!

        Comments
        1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

          I am researching this subject. That's why I want to start slowly, on my own turf.

          Jacek

      2. By Alex de Joode () usura+deadly@dizum.net on http://dizum.net/

        http://www.expatax.nl/startingbusiness.htm

        An enterprise or company can be organized in a variety of legal forms in the Netherlands. A very widespread form is the sole proprietorship ( eenmanszaak ). In this case, the owner holds all decision-making power and is not obliged to distribute profits. No formalities are involved in setting up a small business of this kind. A possible disadvantage is that for the purposes of debt recovery no distinction is made between capital assets and personal possessions. A sole proprietorship that is not operated in the form of a private limited company is the only type of firm that has no legal form regulated by law.

        Among all the other forms of company, which are regulated by law, a distinction is made between those with legal personality and those without legal personality. The former category includes the partnership ( vennootschap onder firma , or VOF) and the limited liability partnership ( commanditaire vennootschap , or CV), while the second category includes the private limited company ( besloten vennootschap , or BV), the public limited company ( naamloze vennootschap , or NV) and the co-operative society ( co-÷peratieve vereniging ). In the case of partnerships and limited liability partnerships, referred to as associations of persons, a partner's contribution to the company's assets is non-transferable and all decisions must be taken unanimously. The limited liability partnership differs from the partnership in that only some partners are actively engaged in the firm's external dealings, while others merely contribute to its working capital and in addition are not liable for the firm's debts. This means that the limited liability partnership occupies a halfway position between a partnership, in which all partners are involved in all activities, and joint-stock companies such as a private limited company or public limited company, which also make a distinction between capital and enterprise.


        http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:d6zC5bH3qaEJ:www.tradepartners.gov.uk/netherlands/settingup/+netherlands+vof+bv+setting+up+business&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

        Comments
        1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

          Thank you!

          With all this generous adivce am I getting from you it looks like I will not have to ask you to travel to me, but instead I will be able to travel to you! Expect more news on the "Jacek Live!" tour soon ;-)

          Jacek

  2. By Darren () darren@dazdaz.NOSPAMM.org on mailto:darren@dazdaz.NOSPAMM.org

    Get a work permit either from an existing company if possible in that country or setup your own company. Work permits are notoriously difficult to obtain though no matter how well skilled you are.

    I thought Poland was joining the EU in May 1, 2004, but I could be mistaken.

    Comments
    1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on hrrp://www.artymiak.com/training/

      I'm working on the work permit application. Setting up a company in the EU is probably too expensive and too much hasle to run/comply with various laws and tax issues.

      So, for now, I wil have to invite you over to Poland. The beer is good and cheaper than elsewhere, food is good and inexpensive as well.

      Jacek

      Comments
      1. By fondula di carceri () fondula.di.carceri@gmx.net on mailto:fondula.di.carceri@gmx.net

        There are many economical bilateral agreements between eu-states, as well internally as with neighbouring countries - check your law. If you can start up an official one-man-business in Poland, i'm quite sure you are legally able to contract yourself out to do something 'on the record' in any eu-country as long as you pay that country the various taxes for the event you organize.

        Comments
        1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

          Thanks for the tip! I'll check on that but I'm sure that the paperwork will be a nightmare.

          Jacek

    2. By Anonymous Coward () on

      Umm...hmm....

      Being in the US, I don't understand this whole work permit thingy. Not that the US doesn't have asinine visa laws and what not itself, but those are based more on entry than business or simple work legality (which related, is decidingly separate). To have a talk based on fee like conferences doesn't seem to amount to something illegal.

      What exactly is the advantage of having near impossible work permits for foreigners? Seems rather xenophobic, not to mention trust-like (monopoly by party), establishing rules for EU countries against non-EU European (even non?) countries.

      I don't see the competitive advantage, besides economic isolation tactic for strongarming. Maybe that's the point. But that's pot kettle black to some of my own countries foreign policy. Seems akin to tariff or duty fights early last century except at the work level (as opposed, again, to entry laws, in this case products).

      Can someone explain to me the advantage of the EU's policy/law here? Is it solely a "join or go elsewhere" strategy?

      Comments
      1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

        Re: work permits

        You need a work permit to work legally in EU states (each issues their own for citizens of non-member states). That's how EU goverments protect their local labour markets. Without getting into too much detail, citizens of EU member states can work in other EU member states without the need to get a permit. Polish citizens, assuming Poland joins the EU, will not be able to enjoy this privilege to its full extent, because some EU member state will not allow Polish citizens to work on their teritorry without a permit. Sad, but true. My passport is still a passport to a world with lots of closed gates.

        As a Polish citizen, I'd need a work permit to legally work in the US too. It's as difficutl to get as a permit to work in the EU.

        I'm not very happy about this but that's how this world works.

        A paid talk given on the teritorry of a country that requires a work permit without such permit is a breach of the local law. There was a case of an American politician who gave a lecture in Poland a few years ago and did not obtain a work permit. The authorities let him do it, but he was breaking our labour laws as far as the exact letter of the law is concerned.

        Re: EU policies/laws

        They are a boiling kettle waiting to explode. Too much bureaucracy.

        Jacek

        Comments
        1. By michael () on

          Hi Jacek,

          I think you need to research further on this. I live in Germany and think I'm quite well informed on this topic. Here are a few corrections:

          - you need a work permit to work as an employed person (dependent worker). The same applies in the US. However most countries give you a permit to work a few months without a work permit. The reason for this is to avoid wage dumping.

          - but you don't need a work permit if you start your own company and hold your presentations as a polish self-employed person (economic freedom). But then you normally have to pay taxes in the country where you hold your presentations. Exceptions to this rule may result from the german-polish double taxation agreement. One misconception you have is that starting a company is expensive. You don't need a private limited company and pay in the minimum registered share capital. Just start with a regular company that doesn't limit personal liability. These companies can usually be started for a registration fee of about 50 EUR. Another thing to consider is that being a self-employed person mostly comes with the burden of having to keep books (accounting), having to pay various insurances, having to pay taxes, paying the rent of your bureau, being sued by court...

          A link that might help: www.ihk.pl
          (You'll find contacts in poland that can surely give you the qualified answers you are looking for)

          - economic feasability: I doubt you can make money on that subject and that there exists a big enough crowd of people willing to travel to a place where you will hold your precentation and pay some cash.

          I hope this helps...

          Greetings
          Michael

          Comments
          1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training

            Thank you for your help, Michael. However, the biggest obstacle here is my lack of knowlege of the German language.

            Jacek

            Comments
            1. By Michael () on

              Why is that an obstacle?

              The contacts from www.ihk.pl speak polish and most of the site is polish. Traveling in Germany can be done without speaking german. Seminars are in english. Of the younger people in Germany most speak english.

              Greetings
              Michael

              Comments
              1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

                The lack of knowledge of German is an obstacle when you need to set up a company in Germany. Understanding what you are signing is very important.

                Jacek

            2. By Michael () on

              To clarify: You start a polish company (not a german). This polish company can then provide its services, i.e. the presentations in germany.

              Greetings
              Michael

              Comments
              1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

                Oh, setting up a company / registering for VAT in Poland is no problem for me. I've already taken steps towards incorporation.

                Jacek

        2. By Anonymous Coward () on

          Thanks for your response. Interesting. I was under the impression that in the US, you have to get a work permit in order to do work for a company, but didn't need one to start a company (although you would have to apply for a tax id number, which they can strike down at whim).

          Sounds like the US is as bad as the EU situation. I know that hell broke loose a bit during the tech visa fights in the late 90s and early this decade, esp. when it was considered exchanging foreign workers for US workers (the big hoopla was really that the US companies lied about the need), but few people (including myself) really focused on whether the laws were overall fair. If anything, it revealed the political weight and bureacracy (as you point out) of the US system and tie-ins with businesses and government.

          I should see if there is some decent law book on these issues...although it'll probably be out of date every couple of months.

  3. By Michael Anuzis () on

    Anything like this in America?
    Something similar is an unofficial OpenBSD class I've taught a few times at my university.
    http://www.anuzis.net/openbsd/ some of the curriculum is available there if anyone's interested. Most things were covered via lecture though; was a 6 week class meeting once a week for 3 hours + for a mere $75.

    Comments
    1. By Michael () on

      75 $ - That is cheap.
      How many attendees?

      Comments
      1. By Michael Anuzis () on

        Only a few attendees.
        The first time I taught the class brought about 6, the second time brought about 9. I prefer a small class personally, as I'd rather teach a few people thoroughly than a lot of people shallowly which is typically what happens with less people in the class. It lets us get further and add more curriculum so to speak.

  4. By Andrea Rossignoli () on

    Hi Jacek,
    should it be possible to have ( paying few ;-) ) a copy of the documentation of the course ?

    It will be good for people that cannot make the travel to Poland.


    Thanks,

  5. By Anonymous Coward () on

    I'd propose ROWY as location for the seminars - nice place there (:

    Comments
    1. By giezet () on

      Take Ustka.. much better ;)

  6. By Michael () on

    I don't know if it's technically possible (I think it is - maybe it has to run in userland there), but windows users are more used to paying for software I would say. I think that could yield a better profit...

    Michael

    Comments
    1. By Anonymous Coward () on

      if anyone is interested:

      http://www.hsc.fr/ressources/outils/pktfilter/

      windows > 2k has a built-in packet filter, though hardly easy to configure and you need RRAS which you probably don't want...

      the above enables you to configure it with a flat text file in ipf/pf-ish syntax and run it as a service. nothing fancy but neat for quick port-blocking.

      used it for about a year. works for me.

      but the thought of the elegant pf running on top of those 3 billion lines of sweatshop code is intriguing indeed!

  7. By Frederic () karlmarx@fastmail.fm on mailto:karlmarx@fastmail.fm

    I understand you want to make it in a very legal way, but what if you come to belgium, officially for spending 2 days holidays.

    You give your conference, and there is a local Belgian company issuing an invoice to the attendees. On the other hand, you - as a polish individual or company - issue an invoice to this Belgian company for your job.

    I am almost sure that the authorities in charge of checking those working permit issues will ever ask the tax administration to check if non-European people issuing invoices have a working permit.

    I am even not sure that you have to "pretend" coming for holidays. Do you have any idea of how many conferences are given every day in Brussels by non-european people. I cannot believe that they all have to have a Belgian working permit to give a conference from time to time. I think it's more a tax issue.

    Comments
    1. By Jacek Artymiak () jacek@artymiak.com on http://www.artymiak.com/training/

      You are correct, I want to do it in a legal way. Peace of mind is something I value very highly.

      I too think that such seminars are not a threat to the local labour market. But I want to play it safe.

      Jacek

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