OpenBSD Journal

Snapshot Testing

Contributed by Dengue on from the call-for-testers dept.

New snapshots are available for testing, incorporating several important changes in the SCSI and ethernet subsystems. Read more for Theo's mail to misc@ .

Subject: snapshots
   Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 01:44:11 -0700
   From: Theo de Raadt


a bunch of new snapshots are out..

some things need testing.  rather important for this next release which
will up come faster than we expect ;-)

in particular:

                the ahc scsi driver has been replaced by a new
                driver.  this needs to be tested on all models.

        de vs dc
                on tulip and tulip-clone cards, the dc driver is
                now preferred over the de driver

people who have this hardware should be sure to test everything
they possibly can.  they are both rather large changes, and we do
not have all the possible setups to be able to test it.


(Comments are closed)

  1. By Ryan Cooley () on

    I'm really a MAJOR OpenBSD fan, but was recently forced to switch to FreeBSD as my desktop. It was a painful decision which you probably don't want to hear, but I have a point.

    The reasons I had to switch? Purely mutimedia oriented. Ogle uses up too much CPU power without MMX optimizations in my opinion, but I was willing to let it suck up the power I could have been using elsewhere... Mplayer, Avifile, Xine, XMPS, none would work without the MMX[2] instructions, so I was stuck without my precious Divx, & Asf formats. Also, Linux binary support was so bad as of 3.0 that Opera couldn't resolve DNS names for some reason (going through a proxy on worked) and RealPlayer had no audio, and again no network contact.

    Finally, Netscape 4.75 was just shortly freezing up so often, and crashing so much that I couldn't stand it anymore. Opera isn't a great browser, and Mozilla hasn't yet been ported to OpenBSD.

    Abiword was once working, and I could stand using that, even though I would have prefered StarOffice to run without locking-up, but that Abiword port died in 3.0.

    PThreads were an incredible annoyance. I would have to strip dozens of PTh references out of simple programs like Dillo just to get it to work... And I just couldn't put up with patching up every application because at the end of it all, it just might not even work (which is why I never got around to trying to compile OpenOffice)

    USB support has always been buggy for me. All I have to get working with USB right now is a dumb little mouse. The light on the optical mouse glows right along until USB devices are detected by the OpenBSD kernel, then the light goes out. The end, nothing to it. ETC.

    Finally, the base of the whole system, XFree86, would just not cooperate. XF86 4+ is harder to get working on FreeBSD, but once it is working, it doesn't freeze up, lose the keyboard, lose the mouse, etc. On OpenBSD, all these problems and more.

    For a server, OpenBSD is the best without a doubt, but on the workstation, it just doesn't work well with multimedia.

    1. By A. Vije () on

      "For a server, OpenBSD is the best without a doubt, but on the workstation, it just doesn't work well with multimedia."

      I think that sentence sums it all up quite well. I, myself, would like to run OpenBSD on every server i have to manage. But on desktops, it works, it`s nice, but it takes a lot of work to make it to a nice workstation.

      For this count`s the same as Linux, the platform is extremely good and stable, but the amount and support of applications on *nix is lacking.


      A. Vije
      Unix Engineer

    2. By Gustavo () on

      mmx: read damn archives slacker, since its not OpenBSD developers fault at all(they arent on movie/pr0n market)
      www: opera works for me, konqueror works for me(bloody ages to compile) and mozilla linux bin works with recent -current
      abiword: I'm using lyx and moving to emacs...
      pthread: you should track cvs-changes@
      xf86: works for me

    3. By anonymous cowherd () on

      pl33z subscr1b3n me to ur
      !!!!! yes, pleez, do it now!

      1. By Ray () on

        With all these recent Anonymous Coward postings with dumb 1st grade satire, would it be possible to enforce some sort of ip-block identification, just to see if it's the same retard posting again and again?

        1. By 3r33t h4x0r () on http://OUR TEAM SITE IS C0MING S00N!!####!!!!

          1 w0uld ju5t l1k3 t0 s4y th4t i h0p3 j00 w3r3 n0t t4lk1ng ab0ut m3, <b> 3r33t h4x0r </b>... b3c4us3 if j00 puLL uP 4LL my l4st p0sts th3y h4v3 h4d S0M3TH1NG T0 S4Y. L1k3 my s3cur1ty 4dvis0ry (r0t13 3nc0d3d) t0 bkw. t0 4ny 3xt3nt y0u d1sl1k3 my 's4t1r3' j00 n33d t0 r3c0gniz3 th4t it h4s r3l3v4nc3 t0 th3 t0p1c @t h4nd. THI5 "ANONYMOS COWHERD" h0m3 wr3ck3r h4d <u>n0th1ng</u> t0 s4y!!!!!. 4ll h3 s4id w4s "I D0N't 4gr33 w1th j00 !@!@" w1th0ut st4ting. wHy. i 4lw4ys st4t3 wHy (B3CAUS3 I R3SP3CT TH4T TH1S I5 4 DISCU55I0N B04RD 4ND 1 D0N'T JU5T R3SP0ND L1KE TH4T 455 D1D!!!!! s0 y3s. i 4gr33...fux0r j00 "anonymous cowherd"

          --3r337 h4x0r

          1. By Gioffreus () on

            it's a good thing i'm not dyslexic, no disrespect intended to those who are... if i were dyslexic though i imagine i would probably have a difficult time deciphering what you have written. btw, what do you call that language you are writing in??? ;)

            1. By Elite Hacker () on Our Team Page is Coming Forthwith

              --------BEGIN TRANSLATED BLOCK--------- -------- Dear Sir,
                 I do ask of your kind forgiveness in this language matter in which I certainly play the rogue. It is with the changing of the seasons that I, (name witheld), finalised my arduous decision regarding the matter of my current professional and lesiourly membership affairs. Since the young chap I was at the tender age of 35, I have since been quite taken with the "Hacker" community. Brothers are born and die, empires grow, and they fall (God bless the Queen), though some communities, groups, and affiliations may truly last millenia. Witness the beauty of the Isle I call home, witness the resolve and strength (though brutish) of the Scottish lords and folk. It has long confused my orphaned intellect as to precisely where I belonged. Not wanting to associate with rogues such as are common among organizations prevalent in the surrounding boroughs, it was many years ago that I discovered the inner peace that could be brought to my soul through what has been recently described as the "Beauty of the Baud" existing in the World of the electron and the switch. I am of course gallantly referring to The Internet , and, tangentially: the whole of modern technological civilization. Perhaps throughout the coming generations, the landscape of Hacker lore will feature a King Henry; someone strong and uniting, or perhaps a William Bruce; someone willing to defy his rulers and forge a path through evil with righteousness, with his folk and bretheren. From these strong convictions, historical lessons, personal hopes and dreams, a fountainhead has been forged in the fire of my heart... a spring that drives me to the technological. It is for these reasons and loves that my pen does oft live a life of its own. I my mind in absentia, replacing (somewhat haphazardly I might add!) an 'e' with a seemingly more technological '3', or substituting ye olde 'a' with what can only be described as sheer linear beauty... the number '4'
              . I shall close by wishing all of you well and good cheers for this new year 2002, and an implicit recognition of the need for reason in this world. Why how fair would it be for your question, Gioff, to be answered in, what would in American English be referred to as, a "gobbledeygook" series of numbers and letters?

              It is with an open digital heart I leave for the night, good eve to all.

                 Elite Hacker


              1. By Anonymous Coward () on

                y0 l33t, wh4t ch4nn3l y0u h4ng 0ut 0n? w3 n3v4h s33 j00 n 3 m0r3 0n d4ln3t #fux0r3dj00rm0m, wh4t ch3w y0u r0ll w1th? i n33d h3lp fux0ring w1th s0m3 l1ttl3 a0l b1tch

                --f4g bl4st3r

        2. By Cindy () on

          1st grade satire? Dose that mean it is top rate? eg. Lessile Neilson, Marx Bros, or my all time fav Trence Hill.

          Or do you mean 1st grade as in school?

          -- Cindy

          1. By Cindy () on

            Oh, also Red Dwarf, another of my favs....That is 1st rate satire.

            -- Cindy

            1. By fansipans () on

              *introductory apology for those who despise off-topic or "fist grade" posts YET STILL READ THEM*
              vindaloo mutants!!! yes! rock out to the red dwarf =]

              *closing apology for off-topic post*


              p.s. whatever happenned to *not reading* posts which are immature? this is reminiscent of the reaction to pornography of many people "BAN IT BAN IT!" "STOP THE PORN!" when it is actually TRUE that you aren't FORCED to go into a porno shop. so please. if you don't like it, don't read it. and if you think it's immature then DON'T RESPOND TO IT. YOU WILL ONLY ENCOURAGE IT. and of course, if you like red dwarf, ROCK OUT!

              1. By Cindy () on

                You right, my posts were off topic, since they may seem immature, I just have this to say to in my own defense "Anonymous Coward started it!!!!".

                And just for you fansipans, since you are one of the few poeple, I respect that post messages here. I will do my best not to post non-immature stuff. So, this could be my last post. I like to think that I brought some humor, and thought proken stuff to many of my past posts. If any of them offend or bother any of it's readers, I apologize. And when and if I post any more messages, I will make sure I have not been dating Mr. Daniels or his brother Mr. Bean. And Mr. Bean was not (but still is funny) Rowan Atikns, best work. Black Adder, was much better. Even the Thin Blue Line was good.

                So fansipans, with all due respect, you are one of the great smeggers. Smeg on....

                Also, rats should be allowed to wander free in Alberta. Freedom to the rats of Alberta.


                1. By fansipans () on

                  0h i wasn't saying you shouldn't post immature stuff cindy, far from it, please feel freely, i was just saying that people shouldn't get all hoofy foofy mad when people do post crap comments. like for example you and i are having a polite discourse about red dwarf, and if someone wants to join in, they can, and if they don't want to, they can skip it.

                  but with regards to Ray's post of:
                  With all these recent Anonymous Coward postings with dumb 1st grade satire,
                  would it be possible to enforce some sort of ip-block identification, just
                  to see if it's the same retard posting again and again?

                  which started this thread, i think Ray's silly for saying "gee i just HAD to read this person's post and i'm SO mad that they wasted my time." instead of exercising his ability to skip to another post, he's going to lobby to REVOKE all abilities a given ip address has to this system (please forgive if this is incoherent it's 4am where i am). i was thinking about some longwinded response to senor Ray, but then kept it short to reduce possible (haha) risk of a flamewar, but since i've discovered another red dwarf fan (pulls out junior astronomy almanac...reads...pauses....turns page....reads) ... i've felt my time discussing more schtuff here isn't lost. but please, by all means...feel free to post crap, dengue is free to delete it, and i'm free to ignore it i want =D. WOOT.

                  --senor pantalones fanciamentes

                  1. By fansipans () on

                    ps: i like it in the butt.

                    1. By Anonymous Coward () on

                      i'm sorry, i'm the person who just impersonated fansipans and posted "ps: i like it in the butt." i just been feeling so horrible that i took over fansipans' nick, so let me set the record straight: whether fansipans does or does not like it in the butt i cannot say.

                      p.s. an easy solution to this (to prevent my wildly meanie acts of mean-ness) would be to DIGITULLY sign your messages mister fansipans, and then people like me wouldn't be able to get away with acts of goofy cowardness such as the for which i am now apologizing

                        Anonymous Coward

                      1. By Anonymous Cowardon () on

                        nevermind, i was drinking lye when i wrote that.

    4. By Anonymous Coward () on

      FreeBSD isn't Utopia. Netscape 4.7 still crashes, Opera is a step backwards as far as I'm concerned, Ogle (or rather SDL) can lock up your console for no reason at all. But FreeBSD is pretty good for multimedia, it's true. Just don't dis OpenBSD.

    5. By jcs () on

      > For a server, OpenBSD is the best without a
      > doubt, but on the workstation, it just doesn't
      > work well with multimedia.

      Maybe you should get back to "work" on your "workstation" and stop watching movies. There's a difference between a workstation and a home PC. OpenBSD works perfectly as my workstation, which I use daily to perform my job (programming, system administration, etc.).

      1. By Ryan Cooley () on

        You don't consider web access to be necessary for serious work? You don't think it's a problem that X locks up, or that the available version of netscape has security and stability problems? What kind of work do you do on your Workstation?

        1. By fansipans () on

          I certainly do recall the jpeg buffer overflow for netscape 4.76...but what security problem (other than it being a closed source app) does netscape nav/comm 4.79 have? Netscape crashes about once an hour, which is good :P it reminds the user to get up of their bum and have a bagel and coffee instead of staring at the bottomless void that is "the web" for multiple hours.

          I will now add 10 leetness points to my running total for differentiating between "the internet" and "the web", then disparagingly (sic?) commenting on 'the web'.


        2. By blue () on

          Give Konqueror a try. I admit KDE is bloated, but fluxbox (blackbox++, which has an openbsd package) as a window manager, and then rig all the good kde programs to run with:


          Programs are usful, you get to use konqueror, and there's minimal bloat and much better starting times.

          You have to run kdeinit on startup somehow, I just use a script as the wm instead of the fluxbox executable:

          kdeinit &

          1. By fansipans () on

            fluxbox is one of the few window managers that has tabbed window support. so you can group multiple windows together, all xterms for example, and then Ctrl+Tab within a group, or Alt+Tab to the next group...all without the steep learning curve that other advanced window managers have.

            FluxBox Sourceforge page
            Some Nice Screenshots


          2. By Ryan Cooley () on

            No flukebox for me thanks. I like blackbox to an extent, and use it as my WM of choice over VNC sessions, but otherwise I always use XFce. I can launch programs and configure XFce much faster than any other WM, so I'm not likely to switch.

            Secondly, I wonder how much extra memory and CPU cycles KDEINIT is sucking up. Would you care to inform me? I admit never considering Konqueror as an option because of my GTK centric nature, and despising anything that needlessly sucks up extra CPU cycles (i.e. anything from KDE). I've made a small bit of an excpeption for Mozilla in exchange for much more stability (IMPORTANT!), responsiveness, functionality, et al.

    6. By mike () on

      If you value the underlying values of OpenBSD then you put up with the unstable stuff, and make do with what you can get. If the unstable stuff bothers you, file bug reports, get on the mailing lists, help make it more stable. Running away to another BSD, or Linux, or Windows, doesn't help make OpenBSD any better. And that "it takes work" is a strange thing to hear for opensource fans. Of course it takes work. Isn't that why we use it?

      San Francisco OpenBSD Users Group

      1. By Ryan Cooley () on

        I've tried reporting bugs. For the most part the primary developers don't care about Workstation related things. For example, it was Theo that dropped my last bug report about hard drives spinning back up after they've spun down. His reply was that they are getting spun down, the system just wants to read them immediately after so it's not REALLY a problem...

        I've done the 'support your OS' thing, but I'm just sick of the struggle, so I defected for my desktop needs. I'll happily come back when the situation improves.

      2. By Ryan Cooley () on

        I've tried reporting bugs. For the most part the primary developers don't care about Workstation related things. For example, it was Theo that dropped my last bug report about hard drives spinning back up after they've spun down. His reply was that they are getting spun down, the system just wants to read them immediately after so it's not REALLY a problem...

        I've done the 'support your OS' thing, but I'm just sick of the struggle, so I defected for my desktop needs. I'll happily come back when the situation improves.

    7. By Anonymous Coward () on

      (after long sleepless nights of studying the fenomen, the research team identified that the problem lays somewhere between the keyboard and the chair...)

      > The reasons I had to switch? Purely mutimedia oriented

      There is a TV to watch videos, you know...
      The word "computer" derives from "compute", not from "compensate for the lack of things to watch on television".

      > Abiword was once working

      And still is. Using it on my OpenBSD-current workstation.

      > Netscape 4.75 ...

      Netscape freezes under all operating systems, and so does Internet Explorer in Windows. Millions of people still manage somehow to browse the web. Opera5 works great for me, I don't know why you don't like it. Most of the time I use Konqueror anyway. And Mozilla... I hope it will never get ported to OpenBSD. I honestly believe that all that hype about the Mozilla project will eventually die peacefully and so will the Mozilla itself. How many years exactly are they trying to produce a stable release ?

      Headlines: "Mozilla team greets the year of 2005 with their release of mozilla- milestone! We are getting closer and closer to the release of mozilla-1.0 every year! The lizard shall be free!"

      > All I have to get working with USB right now is a dumb little mouse

      PS/2 mice worked fine for years, why would you need to use specifically USB mouse now? To increase the performance? Get a USB-PS/2 adapter for you mouse, most USB mice come with them anyway. I guess next trend will be to sell firewire mice.

      > XFree86... freeze up...

      Huh? I use it every day for at least 4 hours, so let's not spread the BS about X freezing up or loosing some mouse...

      1. By Gioffreus () on

        > > XFree86... freeze up...

        > Huh? I use it every day for at least 4 hours,

        ... and I use it all the time! X has been up for 4 days at present. It never hiccups or gives any problem. The longest I've had X running was 10 days. This is version: 4.1.0 on OBSD 3.0 patch branch. arch is x86 .

        Anyway, OpenBSD makes a perfect workstation for me. Granted, I personally have no use for multimedia stuff on computers. Konqueror is a perfect browser for my needs. I also use Netscape on occasion, but that is rare.

        I don't have any USB stuff. In fact, all those USB things were the first things I disabled when I reconfigured/recompiled my kernel...

        1. By haver () on

          X on OpenBSD unstable? Wtf!!

          My X at work has uptimes of 100 days or more, without ever breaking a sweat. I've been running 2.7-3.0 on it and NEVER had any trouble.

          Ergo, stop this nonsense about X being unstable.

          1. By Will Stevenson () on

            Hmm, my poor little libretto 50ct seems to work fine...

            You fucking X users...
            All about the fluff.

            See Also:
            sh(1), screen(1), nmh(1), lynx(1), et al...

            1. By Gioffreus () on

              Eh??? So, what are you trying to say? Overall, I can get more work done by running X. It is easier for me to run a dozen xterms if I'm running X ... ;) I don't see any fluff in that. I've never been much for using screen. It just doesn't work as well for me as running separate xterms does.

              window(1), a screen(1)-ish kind of program, works quite well for me. I don't use it much, but it's there when I need it. Anyway, the VTs are a bit limited in the amount of text that fits on them while still being readable.

              80x25 is fine. 80x50? I can't read it. OTOH, having my xterms set at 80x40 for default just lets me get more done, but I usually do most of my work @ at least 100x40 or 110x50. Those are especially good sizes for using lynx/links.

              So, what's sh/pdksh got to do with what anyone has said here? Just curious... Yes, sh and friends; it is UNIX. What else would we use? Anyway, X is good. X is not fluff.

        2. By R.C. () on

          Yes, and I've had my OpenBSD router running non-stop since 1985... Just because you typed it in a message board, doesn't make it true.

          Besides, XF86 will run forever just fine, it's when it's been running for 6 hours, I come back (type in XLock pass) and X has lost the mouse. I wish it was just my system but it's happened extensively with 2.9, 3.0 & -current. Don't recall any problems with 2.8 (before the switch to wsmouse) but I hadn't been using it very long before 2.9 came around. The wsmouse switch brought about a couple others annoyances so that may very well be the problem. But I digress.

          1. By Geezer () on

            #sysctl kern.version
            kern.version = OpenBSD 2.8-current (GENERIC) #513: Tue Feb 6 22:25:36 MST 2001

            3:40PM up 352 days, 19:58, 19 users, load averages: 0.12, 0.11, 0.08

            #ps auxww | grep X
            root 12709 0.0 0.0 412 12 C0 IW+ 8Mar01 0:00.01 /bin/sh /usr/X11R6/bin/startx /usr/X11R6/bin/startx /usr/X11R6/bin/startx
            root 4141 0.0 0.0 48 12 C0 IW+ 8Mar01 0:00.02 xinit /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc -bpp 24 --
            root 6361 0.0 11.0 12804 7136 ?? S 8Mar01 378:43.22 /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 (XF86_Mach64)
            root 26498 0.0 0.0 312 140 C0 IW 8Mar01 0:20.83 /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fvwm/FvwmPager 7 4 /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fvwm/.fvwmrc 0 8 0 0

            Hmmm, my 2.8 snapshot from about a year ago has stayed up for ever. I use X on it every day, almost all day. Never exit X. Never use Xlock. Netscape browsing, and xterms, mostly. Now Netscape gets all bolluxed every so often, maybe once a month, and I have to exit or kill all the Netscape processes, but it has worked for me. Don't have a similar story to relate for a 3.0 yet.

            if I grep /var/run/dmesg.boot for wsm I get
            wsmouse0 at pmsi0 mux 0


          2. By Geezer () on

            #sysctl kern.version
            kern.version = OpenBSD 3.0 (GENERIC) #94: Thu Oct 18 14:48:27 MDT 2001

            4:22PM up 124 days, 11 mins, 7 users, load averages: 0.23, 0.13, 0.09

            #ps auxww | grep X
            root 25321 0.0 0.1 140 352 p3 S+ 4:23PM 0:00.01 grep X
            root 10315 0.0 0.1 408 300 C0 I+ 23Oct01 0:00.01 /bin/sh /usr/X11R6/bin/startx
            root 1408 0.0 0.2 48 604 C0 I+ 23Oct01 0:00.01 xinit /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc --
            root 10509 0.0 7.3 15204 19188 ?? S 23Oct01 15:26.34 X :0 (XFree86)
            root 963 0.0 0.1 408 300 C0 I 23Oct01 0:00.01 sh /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc
            root 1893 0.0 0.3 92 704 C0 I 23Oct01 0:00.11 /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fvwm/FvwmPager 7 4 /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fvwm/.fvwmrc 0 8 0 0

            Here is another system, pre 3.0 snapshot, same story. X doesn't crash, never use Xlock, Netscape runs without crashes (not used as much).


      2. By Anonymous Coward () on

        I honestly believe that all that hype about the Mozilla project will eventually die peacefully and so will the Mozilla itself. How many years exactly are they trying to produce a stable release ?

        Less time than it took to produce Netscape 2.0 from the Mosaic codebase. And don't forget that the best part of a year was wasted on the old codebase before the *complete* rewrite began. Also don't forget the massive number of features compared to any other browser out there.

        I switched one of my machines from OpenBSD to Net at the last Mozilla milestone, since someone built a Net binary. And I have to say that Mozilla is a pleasure to use as a browser, mail client and newsreader. A serious amount of thought has gone into the interface design and configuration options.

        As for when it will be completed, that's a subjective issue. Netscape have forked the tree a t several points and released 'branded' versions, while the Mozilla team works toward a more extensive set of features.


    8. By Paul () on

      Everything works fine for me in OpenBSD and Im happy...FreeBSD yea its got good multimedia support which I guess is suppose to make up for the 3913241234979 security advisories it has with each release.

  2. By Anonymous Coward () on

    All these messages, and not one about checking out a snapshot.

    I did, here is what I know:
    If you have an interface that is classified as a de, just copy /etc/ to /etc/hostname.dc? before you try an (U)pgrade.
    I tried ftping the bsd.rd snapshot down to / and then rebooting and entering at the boot> boot hd0a:/bsd.rd. It boots as if you booted the kernel from the CD.

    I found that the particular PC, an old 150Mhz P3, had trouble with the dc driver. I kept getting dc1: watchdog timeout errors (in blue) and could not get any thing to go in or out of that interface.

    So I rebooted and entered at the boot> boot hd0a:/bsd.rd -c and at the UKC> prompt entered diaable dc, then quit, and it booted up, did an FTP upgrade which went just fine.

    You have to either configure the kernel or remember to do the boot> -c ; disable dc to use the machine.

    Also, this particular PC didn't run the MAKEDEV script properly at the end of the Upgrade. Had to power down the PC, reboot and manually run sh MAKEDEV in /dev.

    Don't recall if using dhcp to configure the interface worked, it didn't when the dc driver was used, but I think that was just the dc driver not working.

    This thread is kind of old, I don't know if anyone will even notice this.

    1. By nate () on

      I'm the one who made the dc vs. de change. If you have a problem, then submit a bug report, or e-mail me. Don't just anonymously send a message that it doesn't work.

    2. By Ken Westerback () on

      Please submit a bug report or email me some more details. The -current install scripts don't fail for me on a variety (of faster) i386 machines. I would like to get any required fixes into the scripts before treelock for 3.1.

      .... Ken

  3. By Tom () on

    Hi, Im a newbie with OpenBSD, please can you say me? Is the Mylex Accele Raid 170 supported with OpenBSD 3.0? Thanks


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